Interview with Kino MacGregor: Thoughts on meditation, menstruation, pain, and chocolate

A few weeks ago I reviewed Kino MacGregor's new book, The Power of Ashtanga Yoga, on the blog. As a follow-up, Kino agreed to answer a few questions for the blog! I am super honoured and appreciative that she took time out of her busy schedule to answer my random philosophical musings... So please read, digest, enjoy, and comment!

Oh, and have you entered the giveaway yet for the chance to win a fabulous lavender silk eye pillow from Barefoot Yoga? No? What are you waiting for?

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Interview with Kino MacGregor

YG: You don't talk much in your book about meditation, but I know from your other writing that you have a personal meditation practice. I have heard Ashtanga practitioners argue that the Ashtanga asana system is a complete practice that already incorporates elements of pranayama, pratyahara, dharana and dhyana, so there is 'no need' to meditate. What brought you to a meditation practice and what are some of the effects that you have experienced?

KM: My interest in Ashtanga Yoga came from a desire to quiet my mind and live a more peaceful life. When I went to Mysore to study with Sri K. Pattabhi Jois I would ask him whether I could try meditation practice and he would often respond that if I tried to sit for a long period of time my mind would not be settled. The tool of the physical practice of Ashtanga Yoga is meant to train the body and mind to be strong and steady so that it is fit for deep states of concentration (dharana). The experience of meditation (dhyana) is only possible when the mind is able to maintain continuous unbroken connection with the object of meditation. Most often we experience distractions that draw the mind’s point of focus away. It is not that the traditional practice of Ashtanga Yoga does not recommend meditation but that it is only recommended as a practice when the student is ready. Guruji would say that it would never harm us to sit and try to meditate but that if we merely sit and think for the whole time devoted to meditation that it was “no use”.

My mind is not naturally calm, in fact, it is more naturally jumpy and kinetic. I turned to the discipline of Vipassana meditation to train my mind to steady and strong. I’ve done three 10 day Vipassana meditation courses and I plan on taking another. My daily sitting practice settles my mind. Working with the mind without the addition of a physical posture helps me focus more clearly on the subtle body and the subconscious emotions. Some days (maybe most days) I end up just sitting and thinking as Guruji warned, but other days I am able to slip into a thoughtless, wordless connection with the inner self. When that happens my sense of peace is restored as a deep and fundamental level.  I think every student of yoga can benefit from at least five minutes of seated meditation practice as a supplement to daily asana practice.

YG: I was so appreciative to find that your book had such an emphasis on the spiritual journey that is the heart of yoga, especially given that modern yoga sometimes seems so far removed from its roots as a journey of self-realization. On my blog a while back I mused about how as a yoga teacher, I often contribute to this narrative by assuming that my students are seeking a predominantly physical practice and being too 'shy' to introduce the idea of spiritual transformation for fear that students will run away screaming that you're trying to induct them into a cult. Can you share any advice for teachers who are hoping to incorporate some of these teachings into their asana classes?

KM: The thread that connects all human beings is inherently spiritual. We are drawn to yoga in yearning for a direct experience of the true self.  The epiphany moments of our lives are not based in purely physical experiences, but are a blend of the emotional, physical, mental and spiritual. If you speak from your direct experience of the inner work of the yoga practice you will open a door for others to attain that same experience. If you want to introduce the spiritual essence of the practice to your students the key is to keep it based in your real world experience. If you find yourself speaking too esoterically or too intellectually then people won’t be able to relate. The spiritual side of the practice is an invitation to go deeper.

YG: In your book you talk about how the practice of yoga is not just about performing asanas, but is about transforming the way we live our lives and our relationship to ourselves and the world around us though the yamas and niyamas. You talk passionately about adopting a vegetarian diet as a way of practicing ahimsa towards our planet. What are some of the other practical ways that you live your yoga off the mat? 

KM: Ahimsa, non-violence, is the first of the yamas on the Ashtanga Yoga path and it is a conscious choice to allow peace to be a value. Not only is it asked to live a non-violent life but true ahimsa asks you to leave the world a more peaceful place.  If it is possible to do less harm by eating a vegetarian diet, is it possible to actually heal the planet with a new type of agriculture or paradigm about food?  If it is possible to do the daily sadhana of Ashtanga Yoga, is it possible live every moment in accordance with the yoga lifestlye? For example, when you speak are your words aligned with the yogic path? Adopting a non-violent style of communication is an important conscious step for yoga practitioners. This speaks to the ability of yoga to transform your personal life because our personal relationships are our foundation.

YG: Related to that last question, there has been some critique within yoga community in recent years for being too inwardly-focused, or glorifying the personal journey at the expense of a healthy engagement in the outer world. What led you to look outwards and commit yourself to teaching and sharing yoga with the world?

KM: At some moment there is no difference between the outer journey and the inward journey because what you seek to share with the world is what you seek to discover within. As you delve deeper and discover new layers of the inner self then you will be drawn outward to share that with others.

YG: There is quite a discussion going on in the blogosphere at the moment about pain and Ashtanga. You talk a little bit about pain in your book - what advice do you have for people who are trying to decide whether to "take it and practice with it" or to "back off if it hurts"?

KM: Pain is an important part of the yoga student’s journey. The Yoga Sutras of Patanjali state that when dukha (suffering) arises it is associated with the purification of obstacles. If you run from every painful circumstance you will create aversion towards pain. Aversion towards pain is a stated obstacle in the Yoga Sutras. That being said, when pain arises we do not necessary need to hunker down and just “take it”. It’s a sign from the body that some obstacle has arisen and we need to develop a new way of relating with that pain. For example, instead of fighting against it or running from it a way to practice when pain arises is simply to “be” with the painful experience, not going any deeper and especially not to the point of injury, but just allowing the pain to be as it is without any judgment, placing the pain in the purity of the light of awareness. If you allow the pain to simply speak to you it might tell you that the muscle fibers are burning but not being hurt or it might tell you that the joint is impinged and that you are at risk of injury. Once you have that clear sight you can take appropriate action that is based on clarity rather than fear. This is the liberation that the practice offers all students.

Pain in the practice is a great teacher of our emotional response to pain in our life. What do you do when you experience uncomfortable life experiences? Do you run, escape, avoid, fight or collapse? The experience of pain in your yoga practice gives you the forum to develop a new neurological response to adversity in life so that when you come face to face with difficulty you will learn how to walk the middle way between attachment and aversion into a clear, strong path forward and appropriate action.

YG: In my review, I mentioned that I’m surprised that your book doesn’t include any mention of contra-indications for the postures, could you explain what your reasoning was behind that choice?

KM: I believe that with practice and careful direction from a teacher all the postures of the Primary Series can be made accessible over time. It is more important for me to focus on technique that will one day lead to your experience of the posture. I gues I believe, perhaps, naively, in the limitless potential of the human spirit and that yog is an expression of that. In my book I advise students to follow the traditional method and not skip ahead more fun looking postures but to stay at their places of difficulty allow those postures to teach them. While there are clearly some medical conditions that requires extreme care, such as people with auto-immune disease, people who have suffered a heart attack or stroke, or diabetics, the postures can be modified to suit their conditions with the guidance of a qualified teacher. Pregnant women can also continue their practice under the guidance of a qualified teacher.

YG: I really enjoyed the section in your book when you talked about overcoming gender stereotypes (your own and other people's) in your practice. (I was particularly amused by the quote you shared from P. Jois saying that "before, not possible" that women could have performed "correct asana!")  One issue that has always brought up passionate discussion in my teacher trainings has been whether or not to practice during your menstrual period. If it's not too personal, would you mind sharing how you deal with this in your personal practice and/or any advice you have for women practitioners?

KM: Guruji advised women to take the days of heaviest flow of the menstrual cycle (usually one to three days) totally off. The downward flow of energy during that period directly opposes the idea of yoga practice which seeks to bring energy up the spine. The  ovaries are also in a state of flux during which it is not advised to squeeze on them with the deep work of the bandhas. I’ve noticed that women who practice too regularly during their menstrual cycles sometimes experience disruption of the cycle or even infertility. If a woman wants some activity during the cycle I recommend going for a walk, taking a bike ride or even doing some easy restorative yoga but not the intensive Ashtanga Yoga practice.

YG: Ok, enough of the heavy stuff! You and your husband are not only married but you run Miami Life Center together. I'm marrying my partner and best friend early next year, any advice?

Kino: If you are going to work with your life partner I can suggest to set up clear boundaries for work and private life. Tim and I recently switched roles, where he is now the Director of our yoga center in Miami, Miami Life Center and I am focusing more on developing my own teaching both at the center and in my workshops and trainings. I wanted more time to focus on my writing, my online classes and videos and new ventures that I simply didn’t have time to look at while I was involved in the daily operations of a business.

YG: I travel a lot so I know the importance of getting your luggage right. When you travel, what is in your suitcase that you simply can’t live without?

KM: I am attached to my electronics and I love watching movies on my iPad on longer flights, so I need a constant power source. I always have a power adapter for international travel and a double USB cigarette charger with me to plug into the power outlets on airplanes.

YG: Anything else you'd like to share with us? Such as, your thoughts on chocolate-chip cookies or any great books you've read recently?

KM: My favorite chocolate dessert is a really rich lava cake.  I’m a little obsessed with sprouted almonds right now—I think they’re amazing with a little sea salt  and dehydrated to be super crunchy.

I love a really good novel. One of my favorite all time books is The Wind-Up Bird Chronicle by Haruki Marukami.

Kino MacGregor is an international yoga teacher, author of two books, producer of six Ashtanga Yoga DVDs, writer, vlogger, world traveler, and co-founder of Miami Life Center (www.miamilifecenter.com). You can find details of her current book tour, her books, DVDs, videos and other goodies at www.kinoyoga.com.

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Wow. Some amazing and inspirational words there! I suddenly have a massive craving for chocolate cake... What about you, readers?

Book Review: Kino MacGregor's "Power of Ashtanga Yoga"

A few weeks ago I was pleasantly surprised to receive a copy of Kino MacGregor's The Power of Ashtanga Yoga in the mail - I had quite forgotten that I had agreed to review it!

Regular readers of this blog will be aware of my personal journey with ashtanga yoga, and why I decided to move to a different asana (postural) practice. So in reviewing this book I have both personal experience with an ashtanga practice, but also some distance from it.

The book is large-format and about 200 pages. It stays open easily if you lay it flat on the floor, which is always a bonus for a yoga book! The book is divided into two main sections: Part One: Theory, and Part Two: Practice, and it also includes an introduction and some appendices (mantras, full vinyasa count, full primary series in pictures). As a bonus it has a helpful sanskrit glossary at the back.

Part One: Theory

I think that, for me, the strength of this book is in the way in which Kino shares the philosophy behind yoga as a transformational and spiritual practice. This is obviously a testament by someone who has undertaken - is undertaking - a deep and powerful spiritual journey, not just someone who is strong and bendy and famous. The depth of her personal journey shines forth in every word of the book, and for that I have the utmost respect.

History and Tradition
Right from the outset, Kino presents yoga as more than just a physical practice, and she has a humble and accessible tone as she weaves yoga theory into her introduction to the Ashtanga tradition. She starts with a brief history of yoga poses from ancient to modern times, including the evolution of Pattabhi Jois' Ashtanga yoga and  an overview of Patanjali's Ashtanga yoga, the eight-limbed spiritutal path of yoga of which the physical practice of asana is one limb. [I have to say here that I am not really comfortable with the way she uses the term Ashtanga interchangeably to refer to Patanjali's and Jois's systems. She does clarify that in her view, Jois' system is a blend between the Ashta-anga yoga of Patanjali and the Hatha tradition of postural yoga descended from the Hatha Yoga Pradipika, but nonetheless uses the same label to refer to both throughout the book.] She then goes into more detail about the physical elements of (modern) Ashtanga yoga and the theory of how spiritual transformation - letting go of or becoming free from deep-rooted patterns - is realised through physical discipline, which is in itself 'heroic' in nature.

[Oddly although she explains that ashtanga is a six-day-a-week practice, I can't find anywhere where she talks about not practicing on moon days, nor where she discusses whether or not to practice while on your menstrual cycle. The latter seems to me a missed opportunity given that this is one of the only ashtanga books out there actually written by a woman. Did I just miss it?

It also irks me a little that the book presents ashtanga yoga as the only type of yoga - equating modern ashtanga with Patanjali's Ashta-anga, and not mentioning how the other types of yoga, both asana-based and non-physical, fit into the yogasphere. Obviously I get where Kino is coming from, but in an otherwise relatively thorough discussion of yoga's history, it feels like a gap to me. Readers, what do you think?]

Tristana
Kino then goes into quite a bit of descriptive detail about the heart of the Ashtanga method, the tristana: breath, pose and gaze, and talks a little about how the practice works to free up blockages, or granthis, in the energetic body. She describes the origins of the Vinyasa 'ritual' as a sacred, purifying practice; an oblation to burn away our negative habits and set us free.

The yogic diet
Kino devotes an entire section of her first chapter to the yogic diet. She talks in a very grounded way about the practical and ethical arguments for a vegetarian diet and how these relate not only to the physical practice of yoga but to a spiritual and ethical awakening that stems from the practice. I appreciate that despite her obvious passion for ethically-rooted vegetarianism, Kino takes the time to point out that the desire shift to a vegetarian diet needs to come from within each individual practitioner, and that practicing the ritual of vegetarianism without a true commitment to ahimsa - nonharming - is not truly 'yogic.'

One sentence strikes me as particularly important: "If you force yourself to eat a strict vegetarian diet, you may be committing a subtle act of violence against yourself. It is not useful for force yourself to be a vegetarian or anything else. Instead, the path of yoga patiently waits for a day when you feel the desire to change your lifestyle into a more peaceful relationship with yourself and your planet." I wish she had emphasised the first part of this sentence more, because I don't believe - and more pertinently nor does Ayurveda, the ancient Indian science of healing through diet - that strict vegetarianism is the right health choice for everyone. Also, it is entirely possible that a vegetarian diet can be harmful to the planet (google how soy bean cultivation contributes to the deforestation of the Amazon for example). Anyway, that is perhaps fuel for another post.

Suffice it to say that Kino is evidently passionate that developing a healthy and nourishing relationship with food is fundamental to a yoga practice on both a physical and spiritual level, and I think it's a fantastic and important inclusion in a 21st century yoga book (a century in which the state of both human excess and suffering will be increasingly defined by our relationship to food and the food chain, given the necessity of feeding 7-9 billion human beings).

The spiritual journey of asana
This section gets to the heart of yoga as a spiritual practice. Kino blows away the temptation to become obsessed with the physical accomplishments of yoga, recounting Jois' words when presented with a photograph of someone doing an impressive physical posture: "That not yoga. That only bending. Yoga means self-knowledge."

The emphasis of this section is that the cultivation of a healthy body is part of a spiritual practice, in that it provides the spirit a clean and healthy environment in which to reside. It is not a goal in and of itself. The real transformation of yoga, Kino says, occurs when you let go of your deeply entrenched psychological and emotional patterns. The practice of asana puts us in honest, often brutal confrontation with these entrenched patterns that dictate how we see the world and see ourselves. Through the journey of asana, we come face-to-face with our fears, anger, frustration, tears, laughter and joy. We learn to experience these states of being instead of running away from them, and over time, we experience powerful releases that eventually transform us and liberate us from those deep-rooted patterns (samskaras) and towards a place of knowing our true self and being at peace with ourselves. The practice of asana without that transformation is "only bending."

Part Two: Practice

The second part of the book is a pose-by-pose rundown of the Ashtanga Primary series. I think Kino has achieved a very difficult thing here, in that she gives information that is both suited to beginners but that will also satisfy the experienced practitioner. She also gives tips for how to approach the Primary Series if you are new to it, in terms of 'gateway poses' and suggestions for where to check your energy levels and consider moving to the finishing poses.

She rounds up Part Two with a section on strength, where she explains the bandhas and the concept of strength from the inside out, and provides some tips on working towards jumping through, jumping back (including from lotus), and chakrasana. She also has a few paragraphs here countering the contemporary gender dogma of "man strong, woman bendy" and other such assumptions that we may be bringing to our practice or that others may bring to us.

For each pose Kino gives a very detailed description - sometimes more than a page - of the alignment, energetic focus and effects, and benefits of the pose. This could be massively overwhelming for someone new to yoga, and thankfully she also offers beginner's variations (including photographs) and tips for working towards the full poses.

The one thing I think is missing here is a discussion of contra-indications for the postures. Some of these may seem obvious to someone who has been practicing yoga for some time: if you have a herniated disc you should generally avoid forward bends, if you have high blood pressure you should approach inversions with caution, if you have recently had a hip replacement then you want to avoid weight-bearing hip openers, etc. But for the yoga newbie, none of that is self-evident. More and more people are coming to yoga because of health issues that they have in their life: diabetes, stress, chronic fatigue, back pain, sports injuries, the list goes on. The risk here is that if people pick up this book and read about all this incredible transformation that is possible through the practice of yoga without having any guidance as to what may or may not be right for them, they may undertake a practice that is harmful to them or worse, cause them injury or pain.

As a book that markets itself to beginners, I think that's an unfortunate omission.


Recommendations

I would strongly recommend this book to current Ashtanga practitioners (or other hatha yoga practitioners) who want to grow their understanding of the roots of the system and seeking to deepen their knowledge of the philosophy behind the practice of postural yoga as a spiritual or transformational discipline.

I would recommend this book to people who seeking to begin an Ashtanga practice and who are generally healthy and have no current medical conditions, although I would of course advise them (as Kino does) to seek out an experienced teacher as a complement to a home practice.

I would not recommend this book to people who are seeking to begin a yoga practice and who have a medical condition, have recently had surgery, or who are looking for a healing practice for an immediate physical condition. In my opinion the book doesn't provide enough guidance on contra-indications to make it a safe option for someone dealing with an immediate physical injury or health issue, and the rigid sequencing of the Ashtanga series may not suit people dealing with certain medical conditions or injuries. Instead, seek out a yoga book with a therapeutic orientation such as the thereapeutically-oriented work of BKS Iyengar, Gary Kraftsow or Mukunda Stiles. Still better, find an experienced yoga teacher, preferably a yoga therapist, and work with them one-on-one to get recommendations for what type of yoga practice is best suited to you. Once you have some personalised guidance and experience working with your body in a healthy, holistic way, then this book would be a nice complement to that.

And finally, to wrap up, some great quotes:

"Yoga is a sanctuary where you learn to listen to your body."
"At its best, yoga is a nondogmatic, nonreligious path toward self-realization."
"The untrained human mind runs toward pleasure and away from pain, and this constant effort fuels the cycle of suffering. Regular asana practice teaches yoga practitioners how to maintain a balanced state of mind and ultimately break free from this addictive pattern."
"The best gift that yoga gives you is the retraining of the mind's habit patterns to help you face difficulty directly with a brave heart."
"Toning the body or perfecting a high level of physical performance is never an end in itself. In fact, yoga actually teaches you how to release attachment and identification with your body, as well as your mind and emotions. It helps you learn how to identify with the seat of the soul within yourself."


If you do decide want to purchase the book, it's available online through the publisher, Shambala Publications, here.